• ZephrC@lemm.ee
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    9 months ago

    Depends on the circumstances I guess, but no matter how I feel about it people jumping the turnstile aren’t stealing the train.

    • Are they stealing a ride?

      I don’t like this analogy, because there’s a real, albeit small, cost to the subway of that free ride, in terms of fuel and increased maintenance. Digital piracy has literaly no real cost to the producer except the nebulous “lost sale.”

      • risottinopazzesco@feddit.it
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        9 months ago

        It should be a free service anyway. Without free public transport, democracy does not exists. Same reason healthcare and education should be. So sure, you are “stealing” a ride - something that should be yours anyway because people are not born with the ability to travel kilometers of cityscapes, something that is now mandatory to survive and thrive.

      • SomeoneSomewhere@lemmy.nz
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        9 months ago

        You’re also potentially blocking a seat that could be used by a paying passenger, and the operator will statistically run more/longer trains at higher cost to cope with increased demand.

      • Chozo@kbin.social
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        9 months ago

        Digital piracy has literaly no real cost to the producer except the nebulous “lost sale.”

        You know that the pirated files were stolen in the first place, right? Movies and video games aren’t just sitting out in the open free for somebody to snatch up like apples on a tree. They end up in the hands of scene groups by somebody in the studio taking an unauthorized copy of the product and distributing it.

        Lost sales are damages, as demonstrated by the courts hundreds and hundreds of times over now.

        • jarfil@beehaw.org
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          9 months ago

          Ever heard of “ripping” a disk, a stream, or a download? Movies, series, and video games get paid for by someone who then proceeds to make unauthorized copies, they very rarely come from anyone at the studio.

          Lost sales are “legal” damages, which doesn’t mean they’re actual loss of anything, since people who were not going to pay, are worth exactly $0.

          It’s different when bootleg copies get sold, since then there is an actual payment that isn’t going to the right person.

          • Chozo@kbin.social
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            9 months ago

            Does you license plate say “PRIVATE”? Because this is some real sovereign citizen logic, using definitions of terms that the rest of the world doesn’t agree with.

            Ever read the message at the beginning of a rip? You know, the one with the FBI logo on it. Remind me what it says?

            • jarfil@beehaw.org
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              8 months ago

              using definitions of terms that the rest of the world doesn’t agree with.

              Like which one exactly?

              Ever read the message at the beginning of a rip? You know, the one with the FBI logo on it. Remind me what it says?

              There is none. Some rips used to come with a “Ripped by [some nick]” and a scene group logo, but they’ve grown out of fashion.

              Just kidding, I know you meant this one: https://youtu.be/CXca40Z01Ss

    • Chozo@kbin.social
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      9 months ago

      No, they’re just stealing the fuel and wages the employees should be getting for maintaining the train.

      • ZephrC@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        The employees don’t get paid less if some jumps the turnstile, the fuel cost to carry a single person is completely trivial, and I didn’t say nobody should care about turnstile jumpers. I said its not stealing. If you damage the tracks and cause the train to derail you’re a monster, and there are financial costs, but you still didn’t steal the train. Your argument doesn’t make any sense.

          • ZephrC@lemm.ee
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            9 months ago

            Maybe, but it’s also closer to the price saved on less wear and tear on the turnstile than it is the price of the ticket.

        • AnonStoleMyPants@sopuli.xyz
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          9 months ago

          So are you arguing that turnstile jumpers are harming the company, but they are not stealing the service / train / ride? Like the literal word “steal”.

          • ZephrC@lemm.ee
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            9 months ago

            Yes. That is in fact what I am arguing. I would also argue that the harm is tiny and can sometimes be justifiable, depending on the circumstances, but yes. It absolutely does do some non-zero harm, and yes there is no thing being stolen. That is the argument I am making.

      • Prunebutt@feddit.de
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        9 months ago

        Ok, then make the trains a public service, collect taxes for it and make puplic transport free.

        Analogous to the whole “piracy” discourse: Manage more media like libraries.