Nah. Right now they need to cull the weak shows so the strong can survive. Not saying it’s great what they’re doing, but Prodigy and Discovery are definitely the weak shows of the current gen. Focus the franchise on what works, and allow room for good ideas to flourish instead of strangling them in the cradle because a lesser show is hogging resources.
Paramount is in a tough spot financially and if they need to cancel the underperformers so good Trek can survive, I’m ok.
Also, just saying, if TAS wasn’t cancelled we might not have gotten TNG. Not sure your example is working in your favor.
And there was more than a decade between Enterprise and Discovery. Not quite sure your point, but these things are how a series evolves.
Not to mention, the star trek franchise is in an entirely different state now that it was in either of those periods. Comparing this to either of those is really like comparing fresh apples to replicated ration packs
Nah. Right now they need to cull the weak shows so the strong can survive.
This is not how things get made. If Trek shows are not finding the audience they need to justify how costly they are to make, than they’re simply going to stop producing new Trek shows until some years down the road when a new producer with enough clout wants to revive a familiar property.
Prodigy and Discovery are definitely the weak shows of the current gen.
Without the initial popularity of Disco, we wouldn’t have gotten any new Trek past season one.
And let’s be honest about it, without the weight of nostalgia for TNG tipping the scale in its favour, “Star Trek: Legacy” is likely not going to do gangbusters. Lest we forget that Terry Matalas was also in charge of season two of PIC. No one is ever going to be able to convince me that they’re really excited about the ongoing adventures of the TitanEnterprise G and ensign Terry Sue.
This is not how things get made. If Trek shows are not finding the audience they need to justify how costly they are to make, than they’re simply going to stop producing new Trek shows until some years down the road when a new producer with enough clout wants to revive a familiar property.
You do realize that different shows in the franchise are currently trying to fill different niches and appeal to different audiences, right? Prodigy is far from appealing to the traditional trekkie. It’s primarily targeted to young adults and children via Nickelodeon branding. The characters were largely insufferable at the beginning. Yes to show character growth, but this likely also turned people off
Just because one niche show in the franchise wasn’t super successful or was too expensive to make does not mean the current generation of development is doomed.
This writers strike has caused production calculus to change. That’s likely what started talks at Paramount leading to the current decision amplified by their current financial status.
And just because you didn’t like the ending PIC doesn’t meant it wasn’t immensely enjoyed by others. I would love to see the next next generation on the enterprise G with all the cheese it might entail. I absolutely would eat that series up! Don’t worry, I don’t need you to be convinced for me to enjoy it 😊
You do realize that different shows in the franchise are currently trying to fill different niches and appeal to different audiences, right?
You assume some executive at Paramount cares about that? Star Trek is a brand, and how well it performs as a whole is what’s important with regards to new Trek getting greenlit.
Prodigy is far from appealing to the traditional trekkie.
According to whom?
Just because one niche show in the franchise wasn’t super successful or was too expensive to make does not mean the current generation of development is doomed.
Animation costs significantly less per episode than a high concept live action science fiction series like Disco or PIC. In addition, according to impression analytics, PRO was fairly well received, including being in the Top 10 of new shows when its second group of episodes began airing. This despite the fact that its scattershot release schedule likely meant it had difficulty catching on with the intended demographic.
And just because you didn’t like the ending PIC doesn’t meant it wasn’t immensely enjoyed by others.
That’s very true.
You do realize the same thing applies to yourself and your appreciation of PRO, right?
Wow you are tiresome. I guess this shows Lemmy can be a good reddit alternative though with some internet troll scolding others for not liking trek for the same exact reasons as them. Geeze, let’s start from the top.
You assume some executive at Paramount cares about that? Star Trek is a brand, and how well it performs as a whole is what’s important with regards to new Trek getting greenlit.
See my last two links. Also me and tons of others. It’s a very common theme that Prodigy is for kids and that turned of many of the traditional adult fans myself included. Animation isn’t the traditional style for star trek, but it can work so long as it’s appealing to adults/all ages instead of being specifically targeted towards kids. Why Lower Decks has been so successful when TAS and Prodigy were not.
Animation costs significantly less per episode than a high concept live action science fiction series like Disco or PIC.
I wasn’t aware you were a producer well versed in the various pros and cons of live action vs animation. You should know then that is not necessary the case as animation takes way longer and can quickly balloon in cost not to mention the incredibly talentent Kate Mulgrew ain’t cheap. Plain and simple, we don’t know the exact production cost but it very easily.
PRO was fairly well received, including being in the Top 10 of new shows when its second group of episodes began airing. This despite the fact that its scattershot release schedule likely meant it had difficulty catching on with the intended demographic.
Keyword second group of airing. Yes it didn’t have the greatest release schedule, but even if it was more of traditional release it wouldn’t have mattered. Kids these days aren’t exactly know for their adhesion to traditional television release cycles. It really shouldn’t matter when something is airing. Plenty of shows manage the 1/2 season release cycle and still find their audience. To be fair most of those shows don’t have as abysmal of a first half of a first season as Prodigy did. You even acknowledge right here that it has its own intended demographic different from the traditional trekkie.
Just a personal tangent: I get the character development thy were trying to go with by making the first half of the season the way they did, however that storytelling and exposition could have easily been dolled out in in other ways with these kids starting already in starfleet. Or having a starfleet character get trapped in the camp from the beginning with them. It’s not obvious AT ALL from the first half of that season that this is a Star Trek show.
You do realize the same thing applies to yourself and your appreciation of PRO, right?
Absolutely. I never said I hated the show or thought people couldn’t like it ahem. If you read my first comment you would have noticed that while i wasn’t the biggest fan of the first season, i was looking forward to the second and only with the news of the cancellation am i preliminary hopeful this means that Paramount is looking to bring in stronger hitting shows and getting rid of the ones that don’t fit the franchise. I’m not surprised a show aimed at kids with insufferable characters with no initial affiliation to starfleet is a prime target for cancellation, especially with the ongoing writers strike. Not sure if you’re old enough to remember the last strike, but lots of great shows ended up getting cancelled just as collateral damage.
Was i cheering for it’s cancellation, no. Was i surprised by it, also no. Am I excited for the future of the franchise? You bet.
I guess this shows Lemmy can be a good reddit alternative though with some internet troll scolding others for not liking trek for the same exact reasons as them.
It is not trolling to point out the realities of the entertainment industry. And I’m not scolding anyone. I know people who very much enjoyed season three of PIC, and more power to them. I wish I liked it. However, I will be staggered if “Legacy” happens and the majority of people whose opinions flipped once we got back to the adventures of the TNG crew won’t flip again as soon as those characters are no longer a part of the show. Again, not trolling or scolding, simply a prediction.
Yes. Star trek is one of the highest grossing media franchises in the history of the world being more profitable than the likes of Spiderman, Jurassic Park, and Mario. I know media executives aren’t the smartest people in the world, but I’d say that’s a fairly healthy franchise and is a cash cow if they appeal to the right audience.
And yet somehow it keeps going for long stretches without any new Trek.
See my last two links. It’s a very common theme that Prodigy is for kids and that turned of many of the traditional adult fans myself included.
Your two links to some small websites where those particular reviewers didn’t enjoy the series, one of which based solely on the first two episodes? I could also cherry pick reviews.
Look, I don’t know who the “traditional” Star Trek fan is. I know that my old ass has been watching TOS reruns since before TNG was ever announced but I am not going to assume I am the archetypical fan, or assign all Trekkies my personal tastes. Not everyone can share my appreciation for great episodes like “The Way to Eden” and “Sub Rosa” and that’s okay; I’m just built different.
But I was a kid when I was watching TOS. I was still a kid when I was watching TNG. And when I was watching TNG as a child, I had all sorts of toys and action figures, as do several of my friends. The idea that the “traditional” Trekkie demographic does not include children is wild.
That didn’t work for the fans who cheered when TAS got canceled in the early 70s.
Hoping the cancellation of one Trek show will get you the one you personally want is never great thing for the health of the franchise.
Nah. Right now they need to cull the weak shows so the strong can survive. Not saying it’s great what they’re doing, but Prodigy and Discovery are definitely the weak shows of the current gen. Focus the franchise on what works, and allow room for good ideas to flourish instead of strangling them in the cradle because a lesser show is hogging resources.
Paramount is in a tough spot financially and if they need to cancel the underperformers so good Trek can survive, I’m ok.
Also, just saying, if TAS wasn’t cancelled we might not have gotten TNG. Not sure your example is working in your favor.
There was more than a decade between TAS’ cancellation and TNG.
With the planned Phase II series that’s a follow-on to TOS and TAS becoming TMP.
Fair enough but canceling TAS didn’t advance Phase II, mimeoed fanzine claims notwithstanding.
And there was more than a decade between Enterprise and Discovery. Not quite sure your point, but these things are how a series evolves.
Not to mention, the star trek franchise is in an entirely different state now that it was in either of those periods. Comparing this to either of those is really like comparing fresh apples to replicated ration packs
This is not how things get made. If Trek shows are not finding the audience they need to justify how costly they are to make, than they’re simply going to stop producing new Trek shows until some years down the road when a new producer with enough clout wants to revive a familiar property.
Without the initial popularity of Disco, we wouldn’t have gotten any new Trek past season one.
And let’s be honest about it, without the weight of nostalgia for TNG tipping the scale in its favour, “Star Trek: Legacy” is likely not going to do gangbusters. Lest we forget that Terry Matalas was also in charge of season two of PIC. No one is ever going to be able to convince me that they’re really excited about the ongoing adventures of the
TitanEnterprise G and ensign Terry Sue.You do realize that different shows in the franchise are currently trying to fill different niches and appeal to different audiences, right? Prodigy is far from appealing to the traditional trekkie. It’s primarily targeted to young adults and children via Nickelodeon branding. The characters were largely insufferable at the beginning. Yes to show character growth, but this likely also turned people off
Just because one niche show in the franchise wasn’t super successful or was too expensive to make does not mean the current generation of development is doomed.
This writers strike has caused production calculus to change. That’s likely what started talks at Paramount leading to the current decision amplified by their current financial status.
And just because you didn’t like the ending PIC doesn’t meant it wasn’t immensely enjoyed by others. I would love to see the next next generation on the enterprise G with all the cheese it might entail. I absolutely would eat that series up! Don’t worry, I don’t need you to be convinced for me to enjoy it 😊
You assume some executive at Paramount cares about that? Star Trek is a brand, and how well it performs as a whole is what’s important with regards to new Trek getting greenlit.
According to whom?
Animation costs significantly less per episode than a high concept live action science fiction series like Disco or PIC. In addition, according to impression analytics, PRO was fairly well received, including being in the Top 10 of new shows when its second group of episodes began airing. This despite the fact that its scattershot release schedule likely meant it had difficulty catching on with the intended demographic.
That’s very true.
You do realize the same thing applies to yourself and your appreciation of PRO, right?
Wow you are tiresome. I guess this shows Lemmy can be a good reddit alternative though with some internet troll scolding others for not liking trek for the same exact reasons as them. Geeze, let’s start from the top.
Yes. Star trek is one of the highest grossing media franchises in the history of the world being more profitable than the likes of Spiderman, Jurassic Park, and Mario. I know media executives aren’t the smartest people in the world, but I’d say that’s a fairly healthy franchise and is a cash cow if they appeal to the right audience. No exec is going to think like you and be dumb enough to not continue development on the franchise because some niche show targets at kids didint appeal to all Trekkies and even those who generally did liked it acknowledged there’s some very big demographic targeting flaws that would keep many fans from the show
See my last two links. Also me and tons of others. It’s a very common theme that Prodigy is for kids and that turned of many of the traditional adult fans myself included. Animation isn’t the traditional style for star trek, but it can work so long as it’s appealing to adults/all ages instead of being specifically targeted towards kids. Why Lower Decks has been so successful when TAS and Prodigy were not.
I wasn’t aware you were a producer well versed in the various pros and cons of live action vs animation. You should know then that is not necessary the case as animation takes way longer and can quickly balloon in cost not to mention the incredibly talentent Kate Mulgrew ain’t cheap. Plain and simple, we don’t know the exact production cost but it very easily.
Keyword second group of airing. Yes it didn’t have the greatest release schedule, but even if it was more of traditional release it wouldn’t have mattered. Kids these days aren’t exactly know for their adhesion to traditional television release cycles. It really shouldn’t matter when something is airing. Plenty of shows manage the 1/2 season release cycle and still find their audience. To be fair most of those shows don’t have as abysmal of a first half of a first season as Prodigy did. You even acknowledge right here that it has its own intended demographic different from the traditional trekkie.
Just a personal tangent: I get the character development thy were trying to go with by making the first half of the season the way they did, however that storytelling and exposition could have easily been dolled out in in other ways with these kids starting already in starfleet. Or having a starfleet character get trapped in the camp from the beginning with them. It’s not obvious AT ALL from the first half of that season that this is a Star Trek show.
Absolutely. I never said I hated the show or thought people couldn’t like it ahem. If you read my first comment you would have noticed that while i wasn’t the biggest fan of the first season, i was looking forward to the second and only with the news of the cancellation am i preliminary hopeful this means that Paramount is looking to bring in stronger hitting shows and getting rid of the ones that don’t fit the franchise. I’m not surprised a show aimed at kids with insufferable characters with no initial affiliation to starfleet is a prime target for cancellation, especially with the ongoing writers strike. Not sure if you’re old enough to remember the last strike, but lots of great shows ended up getting cancelled just as collateral damage.
Was i cheering for it’s cancellation, no. Was i surprised by it, also no. Am I excited for the future of the franchise? You bet.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk
Glass houses, Champ.
It is not trolling to point out the realities of the entertainment industry. And I’m not scolding anyone. I know people who very much enjoyed season three of PIC, and more power to them. I wish I liked it. However, I will be staggered if “Legacy” happens and the majority of people whose opinions flipped once we got back to the adventures of the TNG crew won’t flip again as soon as those characters are no longer a part of the show. Again, not trolling or scolding, simply a prediction.
And yet somehow it keeps going for long stretches without any new Trek.
Your two links to some small websites where those particular reviewers didn’t enjoy the series, one of which based solely on the first two episodes? I could also cherry pick reviews.
Look, I don’t know who the “traditional” Star Trek fan is. I know that my old ass has been watching TOS reruns since before TNG was ever announced but I am not going to assume I am the archetypical fan, or assign all Trekkies my personal tastes. Not everyone can share my appreciation for great episodes like “The Way to Eden” and “Sub Rosa” and that’s okay; I’m just built different.
But I was a kid when I was watching TOS. I was still a kid when I was watching TNG. And when I was watching TNG as a child, I had all sorts of toys and action figures, as do several of my friends. The idea that the “traditional” Trekkie demographic does not include children is wild.
👍
The same reasoning with TAS also applies to Phase II and we might not have got TNG had Paramount not decided to turn it into TMP.
Just goes to show tv development is a strange base. One failure leads to another’s success